Awareness of Spiritual Experiences – Milwaukee, 1967


This is a second time. I’ve been in Milwaukee and I’m very happy to be back here. It’s always a pleasure. Although, of course, last summer it was much better, with the trees out and everything green and to come back and see Barry again. It reminds me when, many years ago, when I used to live in the Deep South and we had a few snows and we got the trees were bare during the winter time. But, I tell you, you know, after living in warm weather so long, I’m getting to the point I can never again go to cold weather. And, I got that. about 20 years ago, when I was in the South Pacific. I like the climate. I’ve always liked the sun, a deep semi-tropical climate, because I think it’s a more fertile area in which for the mind and the Spirit to work in. You’ll notice in the all of the groups that have a developed and became very high in religious and philosophical, spiritual, occult work, they all came with their start in an area of this sort, that Christianity started in a semi-tropical country. Buddhism started in a semi-tropical country. The Hinduism was in the tropical country. All have actually developed in areas of this nature. The Mediterranean, which was a bid for civilization, had all the early cults. The mystery cults were all developed in Greece and Egypt and North Africa and many of these areas. So, a semi-tropical or a tropical climate seems to develop these much more. I don’t say that holds true all the time but, in some extent, history bears that out.

Now, a lot of you, here, heard the talks last summer when I was here. And, that was merely to build the background and to get a foundation for this work, which is called Eckankar. Eckankar, of itself, is actually Soul travel, which is pertains to the psychic worlds The psychic worlds have, all now, developed space and time and energy. And, we’re concerned more with that, than we are, actually at the present time than we are, the total worlds, the spirit world, the worlds of pure Spirit, which is Total Awareness. Now, all we’re talking about here, actually, in all of this work is Awareness and it’s an inner Awareness of what we are doing inwardly and not what we’re doing outwardly. Tonight, I’m going to talk on a subject in which I’ll try to break it down for you, called subjective experience. And, this is all that we are talking about. And, this is all that we want to be aware of instead of the objective or the outer. Now, this is the inner experience and I’ll give you the example and I’ll break it down as much as I can to one thing. And, that is that, many a time, that we are aware of something inwardly happening to us, that may be what the term that you share with so many people in the psychological profession who use the word, is cognition. And, that cognition is a sudden awareness of an idea or a thought or something happen inwardly. Now, it’s like the, I’ll give you an example of this and that is today and leaving home this morning and getting on the plane. I felt a loss within myself. I was aware of this. I was aware of being separated from my wife and it was a loss. And, I was aware of that because of the companionship in being with her Now, this is an inner awareness or an inner cognition. There is the cognition of something and in all of our daily experiences, we are going through this subjective experience constantly. I’m going to lead into what I’m talking about here, in a few minutes, of Eckankar or soul travel. And, this will go into this, of this area. Now, this subjective experience, I’m trying to say to you that you have two types of subjective experience. You have the psychic experience. You have the spiritual experience. Now, there’s a difference in these. This is dealing in a negative world and this is dealing with physical phenomena. The spiritual is dealing with that, that’s in the higher worlds, that is dealing with what we term the microcosmic world, the God-world, or the Universal world or the Sipiritual world.

And, it has to deal with all of those things that we think of in terms of high ethics, well morals, the same thing, high ethics or morals, living in a consciousness of God and everything that’s coming in with that of the abstract qualities of love, faith and these types of quantities down here. You’re merely dealing with a physical phenomenon in which that one is able to do ESP, to do all of the clairvoyants do, so many of these type things, manifest something, demonstrate something and that type of thing. Now, between the two you have to think in terms of these being in the inner in this subjective world. Though when one is dealing with inner thoughts or forms here, he’s dealing in the term of the inner or the subjective thing. It’s like the man says, “I think I will buy a pair of shoes today.” It starts, here, in the inner and it comes to the objective experience of him buying the shoe so he could have this same thought idea and everything working in the subjective world on things that pertained with both psychic or spiritual experience.

Now, the man who here, who says, “This is another type of the experience.” He says, “I am going to do a prayer for a certain type of international situation or something” or “I’m going to try to to do an upliftment of a group that does not have something there spiritually. They have poverty of spirit” And, he goes through the inner form of prayer, then he’s working in the spiritual world and, thus, having the subjective experience. Now, if he says, down here, that he is going to manifest himself something, for example, that he might pray to get himself a new automobile or something and the new automobile shows up, he’s working in the psychic element.

So, you got two types of inner experiences that you have, that you are thinking of when you are working in the subjective world. A person who comes to me and says, “I had this thing happen to me and it happened to me in in a certain form on the inner and it was just as it was, just as plain to me that this happened this way,” then, I know she’s working in, she’s been in the subjective experience field. But, then I have to break it down on both ways. And, to give you an example of this, two years ago an elderly lady came to me and she was quite happy with her life because she was going along and there wasn’t much to say to her in her in her consultation with me except that I told her that one thing was going to happen to her. She was going to have an automobile accident, but she didn’t have to have the automobile accident physically.

In other words when a reader or someone tells a person that he’s going to have an accident over here, they don’t tell him how this accident is going to work out. They don’t tell him that he doesn’t have to have that accident. They may say, “Oh, you don’t have to have it.” But, at the same time, they don’t say anything about working this out up here on the psychic plane. And, the psychic plane is actually the reflection of the physical plane. If you want to call it astral plane, well, that’s all right, but it concerns more than astral plane, but it’s a reflection of this.

So, this woman questioned me about it little bit. And, I says, “Well, it’ll all be taken care of up here. (pointing to the blackboard, up, then down) so you won’t have it down here.” About 10-15 days later, she reported that she had the accident but she had the accident up here and it never got down into that area. She said that she got out of bed in the morning and put her feet down. And, all of a sudden, it hit her with a great shock. She saw her car roll out of the drive. She backed out. She had an old car. She backed out and here, put the car here, forgot to put the brakes on, but jumped out and ran into the house for something and the car rolled out, right out in the street and here came a car here and crashed it. And, all happened right here. She said, “Oh, what a terrible shock it was to me that I went through all of this right here.” But, she says, “That was much better than having it down here where my car was torn up and I might have had injured bones or something would happen to that fellow.” So, she never had her wreck down here. Now, this is what you call a psychic experience.

So, when the person is going into the spiritual experience, it can be this way. I have a list. These are two examples I’m giving you. I have a woman in La who has been with me quite some time. When I do lectures up there, she’s had consultations. She’s taken the course. She writes me and we’re pretty close in that manner. And, she says, “Now, these techniques that you’re giving here, I’m just sorry I can’t do them. But, I got another thing to tell you what happened to me.” She was sitting here one night and trying to do some of these techniques. So, all of a sudden she finds herself up here in these spiritual worlds, and she was in complete illumination and light and all of the things that she wanted to know, the knowledge and all of that was pouring right into her.

And, she says, “I never had anything like it.” Well, this is the spiritual experience.

But, then, she said. “Gee, I can’t do any of the techniques.” I says, “What do you want to do the techniques for if you can go up there?” See? And, she then began to, in meditation, she’d set out and in a few minutes she’d be up there. And, that was a whole purpose of all of this anyway, is to have your spiritual experience.

And, the best way to find out, if one doesn’t know about spiritual experiences, is to read the lives of the Saints, read the lives of any of the holy men, the saviors or the messiahs or any of these people who describe their experiences here. They, actually, can’t describe them, to tell you the truth. They can’t come out and say the experience that I had here because there’s no words.

So, you have to remember that we’re all working in these everyday, anyway. All of these bodies are with us and they are around us in this manner. You have Soul here and it’s surrounded by physical, then the others and then the others and then the others and many others until it finally gets out to the Soul Plane and then it begins to go into this. So, you’re on each one of these anyway. See? And, a point, if that we want to be, is to have awareness of where we are and what we’re doing, we cannot have it until we understand the subjective experience.

So, you see, these are actually states of consciousness. That’s about what they amount to. Every one of these is a state of consciousness. So, when the individual down on the physical plane wants to do what he calls Soul travel. he travels any place in these worlds because he is now working in space and time. But, when he gets up here, there’s no space and time so he’s in in full awareness.

He’s got all things. He’s in a state of consciousness where he knows all things and gets all information. Down here, he’s limited because he is dealing with space and time. It doesn’t matter, if he’s on the mental plane or the mental plane or the astral plane. He’s still dealing with space and time. So, what he’s doing, we are becoming aware of where we are and what we’re doing and we’re working in a subjective area. And, now that that’s all there is, that’s the basic point, rather, to what one calls Soul travel is working with states of consciousness and being aware of your experience in these worlds.

So, if a person is working up here in the astral plane, and he becomes aware of it, of where he is there, then he’s working in the awareness on this plane. Now, why I’m saying, and I’m going all around instead of taking a direct course into this, is because we have so much, today, which been thrown at us for, oh I don’t know, maybe the last hundred years, about psychic phenomena and traveling in the astral body out here someplace, and we’re not traveling in the astral body. We’re not coming out of the physical body to travel in the astral body up here. We’re not doing that.

We are going up here in a state of consciousness. From here to here and recognizing we’re there and when we’re there, we have to take on the astral body because that that’s the way that the law works. You have a question?

(Student) – “Yes. Have you reached the spiritual plane and and when you reach the spiritual plane, in other words, are you in a hypnotic state, or would you be in an unconscious state?”

You’re talking about this down here.

(Student) – “No. Up there, you are in a conscious state.”

You mean when your awareness is up here, are you under that?

(Student) – “Yes. Are you in an unconscious state? Are you in a hypnotic state? How do you get to this spiritual plane?”

Oh, no. You’re not that. In other words, are you in a trance down here to do all of that?

(Student) – “No, because you said that up to the fifth level, you are in a conscious state.”

Now, when you are up into here you are in a conscious state, too. That is awareness that you are, see we call… Let’s break this down to religious terms. We call this God or the God realm or the Inner or the Kingdom of God, if you want to do that. That’s is simple. You are aware. You have a greater awareness all the time as you go farther up into this God state and you reach this, called God-Realization, which actually means that you know what this unknown quality is. You reach a degree of knowingness on that. Down here, at this fifth plain, you reach a knowingness of self-realization. See?

Then down here, you know who you are. You know where you’re going. You know what your purpose, your eternal purpose, not your purpose in life, but your Eternal Purpose is. You realize that you are a part of this then when you go up here, you have three great qualities. That is the beingness, knowingness and seeing.

Because, you’re in a position that you don’t have to, there isn’t any movement at, that we call physical movement as we know down here, because up there all you have to do is be and know and, if you want to see, you see. I’ll give you an example on that, which is an old cliche of mine which I’ll use. Down here, if a person wants to know what’s going on in San Francisco, he has to move from this position out of himself in this state of consciousness over to San Francisco and look. Up here, you don’t you just know and see.

It’s just there. See? Because, I’ll put it this way. When one becomes a part of this God, God-Realization or God-Self, he has all of that at his own, well, this is the only way I can say it, on fingertips, to know and be known and see. In other words, there’s no purpose in going any place because he’s one with the universe, the whole universe.

(Student) – “Uh, Mr. Twitchell, but you are still individualized at that state, aren’t you?”

That’s correct.

(Student) – “And then, your individuality, what kind of an entity is it? is it a light body or…?”

This is what my terminology for that is, a true soul body. And, see, the absolute, you’re stripped down from everything else in the world, everything. And, you’re entering in here in your pure self.

(Student) – “Would that be some sort of energy?”

Yeah, it’s a form of, I would say, this it is a unit of awareness or a unit of energy, about the basic way of saying, this is an atom with all individual atoms, with all the qualities of recognizing yourself as …

(Student) – “But it’s still not in the Sugmad, is it? It’s not in this type of state?”

Well, what I’m doing, I’m going into the,… I’m talking generalities. But, what I’m talking about is a high state, here today, because, up here, you got 360 degrees of vision and you can see everything.

I have two or three students who, quite frequently, they don’t kid about it when they write about their experience, they talk about, they write about, the 360° vision they have. But, what you know about these people is the changes made in the people, made in them. They absolutely become different people, outwardly, from what they were before. The faces shine (just a second) their faces shine. Their actions and everything are no longer within themselves. They’re not locked up, like so many people are, that everything has got to pertain, has got to come back to “my world.” You know, they’re now, they’re outgoing and everything is working from this area, the God Area. See? What can they do to give? It’s no longer. “What can I get?”

I’m talking in basic relative terms. But this is the best way I can explain it. I can do this forever, you know, but sometimes it just won’t go across. Yes, Don?

(Don) – “Would you say, then, that to arrive below the fifth plane would be a prerequisite to lose the negative qualities?”

Yes, because this soul down here is run on a negative basis, anyway. The universal mind, which is this that is manufactured in this area and that we live upon in this area, not all, because spirit is a basic thing. but it is a major thing. The mind. of itself, is of the negative qualities.

Yeah, sure. Because when you go up to here, you drop all these states. They they call them bodies in a lot of the occult literature. You drop all these bodies and you go in here and I’ll just say, “One’s it.” He no longer, when he’s speaking about the I, he’s not speaking about this I, he’s speaking about the Big Thing. Because, what you’re doing now, you’re actually working into, in, two worlds. And, these two worlds are simply the microcosm and the Macrocosm. And, I think anyone who’s had any occult or metaphysical work, knows what I’m talking about. He’s working with the little I, which is a human state of consciousness, and the Big Universe, which is the God state. Of course, he has this middle state over here, which is the self-realization state or the self-realized state.

So, you see, he, actually, has moved from this position into this position. And, I think there’s a good way to explain that in saying, a young fellow who grows up and gets his education and all the time, from childhood up, he’s concerned with the little I and the human state of consciousness. So, he grows up. He finds someone, marries her and he’s moving a little out of this state of the little I, here. And, we got a false term for that. Sometimes, we called it the ego.

He has children. So, the children, his interest goes out a little farther than that, plus his work. Then, the children grow up and he goes out and he begins to do a lot of civic work. He goes on boards with a civic. He goes on charitable boards. He goes on all of these boards. He says, “What I’m doing is because I have to take up my time. I have no more. The children are gone with families to raise and everything. And, I got so much time on my hands. Now, I go into that.” Well, actually he’s working into this because he’s getting out of himself, of the human state, because, now, he’s serving a larger cause. You see what I’m getting at here? He’s not working here any longer. He’s working a larger cause and this is, this law will revert back to the states of consciousness and movement in a minute.

So, you see, what we come to, here, is a fact that in this world of the I, the little I, and this world of the God-World, you have two states here, that are very interesting states, today, that we find so much. We find a lot of people who are doing predicting. I mean a tremendous amount of predicting and they’re predicting from this human state or the psychic state, you could say, of consciousness because all they’re doing is predicting from what they see from that and not from what they see in this.

And, I’ll give you the story of a man. I can’t give you his name. He wrote a very good book called The Lost Souls in the Wilderness. And he was, as a young man, he had a great vision that the world was, he saw the world cracking up, right down like this. Well, actually it was his own little personal world, his own little state of consciousness.

And, he was about 18, then, and he got so upset about this, he went around telling everyone about this, embarrassing his family and he got to be in a state. He had split his consciousness down here and I don’t know the exact term they call it in psychiatry, but it’s something like becoming a schizophrenic or a paranoid state. So, they, his parents, finally decided to put him in an insane asylum. It’s a horrible word, I mean a mental institution. So, he was very fortunate that he had a doctor there who recognized this, what he had done.

And, he brought him back to health. So, that experience gave this young man an incentive. He first became a medical doctor that specializes in psychiatry and then he decided that he didn’t have enough background for all of this and he became a minister and he was with the Harvard University. But, all he was saying, here, is that he split this psychic state, or the human state of consciousness, down like this. And, this vision that he saw was his own world breaking up. But, he said this was all the world. Now, this is where the psychics and all these people who are giving predictions get into trouble.

But, if they’re moving over into here into this world, the God world, or the Universal world or the Macrocosm and they are here and they see these things happening, then they are not working in a field of schizophrenia or any of that. And, these people who usually do see such things, that if they don’t talk about it, they don’t come out with great warnings or any of that. They try to work into some place to help prevent whatever this is, is coming about. And, they don’t think, they don’t get, too many of these because they think in the terms of the highest for man. If a disaster is coming in a certain area, they won’t try to change this. They won’t try to make any sort of change because they look upon this and it might be the karmic debt that these people, living here, has to pay for it, something. Or, they might feel, in the sense, that this is a debt that this area, and not so much as the people in the area, as the area, of itself, where that area of the Earth has to pay for itself in the karmic debt and something happened there, now. And, these people living there, they might be just caught in that. This is why so many predictions fail.

And, this is what I’m trying to talk about on your subjective experience. That when you’re down here so much in these psychic worlds, that when you’re doing physical phenomena, and a person is manifesting and doing that sort of thing, after a while, his power of manifestations will run out and he can no longer do these and he comes down, I use the term ladder, he comes down the ladder to about the lowest place he can get down here. So, he can’t be, he cannot if he actually wants to do anything with himself, he cannot play around with any of the psychic powers. He’s got to go to the God area.

And, that’s all that ECK is concerned with, is trying to get the man from here up into this area. Now, although I explain this thing easy and I put it nice and it, sometimes, even gets to be like some people get to be glib, the way that I explain it and bring it out. It isn’t that easy. And I don’t think that we are all going to walk out and get into this area within next week or something. But, all I say is, that this path that I’m using here does not present the problems that most of the paths do. Because most of the paths, when they sit down to do the meditations they get themselves into frustration. And, they are trying to create an effect and when they create an effect, the effect comes back upon them and they become psychopathic. And, they run into all sorts of problems here.

And, these problems are actually, gives anybody terrible, well, it pushes them down and depresses them so much that they, actually, don’t know what they’re up against. They have nobody to turn to and they work into depressive states. And, sometimes, they come to depressive manias. They run into all kinds of problems, here, and the more they try to push on this to get themselves into other areas, the more the door seems to be closed.

And, all I’m saying down here, is if the individual will open himself and be relaxed and try to do, try to take control, of these tensions in him, in himself, and work with subjective experience instead of trying to do physical phenomena, then he’s got a greater opportunity to get into that state than most of these other systems. I found most systems be real clumsy. Now, there’re probably a lot of people say that about this system, too. But, this is the one that I know. I’ve tried a lot of them. I’m trying to honor them and it worked out much better for me because, well, I’m partial to it and it seems to work alright now. I found it working for a lot of other people.

How you can tell, actually if I wanted to go to the trouble of doing, trying to get any to say one system is better than the other, is to find out what the percentages were in the groups. See, most all groups are striving here anyway, philosophical, religious and that. Just how much, what’s the percentage of people who ever used that system got up there? And, that’s what you’d have to count. Now, I haven’t sat down and figure out any actual percentage on how many but I in research around over many areas. I found out I look more actually at the negative side of how many people were in such a bad State like this and it doesn’t necessarily mean that that that system is putting these people in there, but if it wasn’t if they were fitted for that system, then they would be getting better. And that’s all that happens to people when they start moving into these other states their welfare and their physical conditions and everything else starts getting better, their health gets better, situations get better for them, many things happen to them that doesn’t happen if they were trying to manipulate the mind, the psychic powers, to get these things.

Very interesting, I don’t know why that many people will do this and, I suppose it’s natural and I’ve gone through some of the states, too, that they find somebody that they think who’s got the answers and they’ll go to go to him and say, well, this is a good example, “Gee, I need a job. How about you getting me a job?” See? Well, this fellow, here, sometimes he’s real cagey. And, he said, “All right, you get a job.” You know, and this poor fellow over here, he goes out thinking, “Well, this man is going to use all of his psychic powers and he’s going to get me that job.” And they go out and they sit down and they wait for this to happen but it never happens and he’ll say, “Jeez, no good, I better go get somebody else.”

This happened to me, actually. A young fellow in England who wrote to me about a year ago and asked me if I’d helped him get a job and I was trying to postulate him out into some action to get a job. And usually, you can do this postulation on a person, getting him moving, getting out of his inertia. And, he’ll move out and it happens. But, the other day, I got a letter from him right after the first of the year and he says, “Well, I’ve waited a year here now, sitting here and nothing’s happened. And you, very dogmatically, said that I was going to get a job.” See? And I wrote him back and I said, “Well, didn’t you follow any hunches, any intuitions? Did you look? Didn’t you read the classified ads? Did you ask anybody about a job.? Did you actually apply for a job any place?” And, he wrote back says, “No, I didn’t do any of that since you were going to do all that for me.” Well, if he’s actually in that state, this is a state of heavy inertia and they lean upon people of this nature to do things for them. And this fellow can do them justice or an injustice.

Editor’s Note :

postulate – to use something like a given, a premise, or supposition as a starting point for a course of action or reasoning
postulation – premise, expectation, presumption, presupposition, conjecture

Awareness of Spiritual Experiences Disc 2

If he can work this fellow into doing something for himself, he will do it. One time, I ran into an inertial period and, of course, we never see what we’re doing ourselves, actually, so many times. I couldn’t get myself moving and I had a little Swami who was around a great deal in those days days. And he said, “Now, I want you to to take this magazine idea I got and I want you to go all around to everybody in town,” all the printers and get the price on what it was they would charge.” So I tramped around town for five days and wore out my shoe leather and everything else and finally got all the prices on what they print the magazine for his little organization and came back and handed it to him and I said, “Well, I think Hazard printers over here would do it better. You’ve been with them all these years, anyway.” He said, “Well, I knew that. I wasn’t going to change off of them, anyway. He says, “All I was trying to get you to do is get some movement in you.” And, you know actually, that’s what happened.

I broke that inertia, but you can’t get everybody doing all these things when you’re dealing with hundreds and hundreds of people. Now, you came down tonight, actually, to talk in the areas of what these techniques are and how how to use them and what they’re like and that. So, I’m going to lay down the basic techniques and I give them. First I start with is what I call into the astral technique. Then I do the mental technique. Sometimes, I call it the meditative. It isn’t the proper word. It’s, actually, then the mental, then the dream, then the trance. Then the direct projection. Now, actually, these are props.

You know, well, I’ll give this sort of an idea. An accountant, when he goes in to start training, he’ll get all of the different systems and he’ll have about 25 figures there and he’ll figure and figure and figure everything. He leaning on the props of addition. But you know, when he becomes proficient and gets experience under his belt, he sees all of these figures like this. The fella just goes swish, swish, swish, and he writes down the sum. He doesn’t lean upon any props of addition. He just, actually, knows what he’s doing.

All of these are a way of doing something. But, what I’m trying to say, we should be able to use a direct projection like this woman I was talked about in LA. And, instead of using all of these, just be up her. And, well, if we can do it, what do we care about using all of this? Why would we, actually, be concerned how we got there?

Everybody’s been in the same position. They have driven to town one day and had things on their mind and they never saw any of the traffic. They just went right on through and got to the destination. Well, I don’t advise doing that but the point was they got there. And, it’s the same way here. See? You don’t care how you get there, but you get there. And, as long as it’s working for you, let it work. Now, these are only broad terms in the ideas that when I lay down a specific way of doing something, it doesn’t mean that we, actually, have to do this this particular way. Everybody’s an individual. They have their own individual ways of doing things and have their individual states of consciousness. So, whatever the technique would be, one must let the technique fit them and not them fit the technique. Because once they start this fitting, fitting themselves to a technique, they’re getting in a pigeonhole. It’s like working at a job and many employers find that a man can work better if he works in a broad area than to pin him down and say it’s got to be just exactly this way or it won’t work. So, this is the whole way of any of these techniques.

Now, the first one is concerned, actually with the astral world. This is concerned with a causal and mental world. These are concerned with the first the astral, the causal, the mental, the dream. The trance is concerned with all of these, plus going to the God area when in deep trance. Deep trance takes one to the God area. Direct projection will go any place, including the God area on the physical plane and the God area on any of these.

I always just called it a handy gadget, you know, like you have around the kitchen but not being facetious about it. Actually, that’s what most of the gurus and the Masters and the spiritual travelers all use, simply because it can put them from one place to another place almost instantly. Do you have a question?

(Student) – “I was wondering. Is this becoming in contact with your Overself?”

Yeah. Well, if you want to use, let’s see, are you using the word ‘oversoul’ for soul or for God?

(Student) – “They say we have an exact duplicate up there and this is the Overself. And, once you have contact up there with the Overself, you know everything.”

Well, that was Emerson’s word for God.

(Student) – “And, what about these dimensions, all of these dimensions? Are these all within this area of the earthly, all one in the other?”

Yeah, they just overlap.

(Student) – “Just overlap. They are all just different vibrations aren’t they?”

Yeah. Yeah, and that is why that you see when we move from here into the state of consciousness, we can’t live on that plane unless we take the body that’s here. See?

(Student) – “Now, you look the same on each plane to yourself.”

Yeah, a great deal. It’s about this about the same.

(Student) – “As you have contact with the body, you have all the senses on the other part.”

This is, actually, the senses of these, each of these has a set of senses, in other words. So, when you’re having the objective or the outer self, as we see in the physical, you have these senses. I put this backwards, actually, down here. You have your spiritual awareness, let me do this over. or your subjective. Actually, you have your experience here in the subjective or the spiritual awareness. You become aware of this. This flows down. I’m using the term down. It should be out to the objective and the objective recognizes. See? And, then it has an understanding or this is the mental part. See? It understands what happened here.

It’s like the man who says that his mother came to visit him and he talked with her and he knew all of this and this was a true experience to him, but nobody else could see it. See? Well, here that’s a subjective experience and it comes down and comes out here and then he can vocalize it. Because it hit these senses here and these senses came into the mental senses or the physical senses and then he could tell about it.

(Student) – “When traveling in Aspen, you said we can go to California. Now, I’ve read that when you step out of your body, permanently, we go to that etheric plane.”


(Student) – “You can’t go anywhere, except that if you’ve been there before. But in the astral, you said you can go anywhere. I’ve never been to California. Could I could I go to California if I could travel astrally, not even if I’ve never been there before?”


(Student) – “Yeah, I could in the etheric because I’ve never been there?”

Well, I’m not going to understand what the etheric means.

(Student) – “Well, this is supposed to be where you go after you transition.”

Oh well, it’s according to what body you go out into. Now, if you come out of your physical into your astral, you can travel anywhere on the astral plane or the physical plane, but you can’t travel above that. See? But then, if you say this is a mental up here, then you come, eventually, if you didn’t reincarnate, you’d come up here just out of this astral body because it has a length of time for living. And, it would release the next body and you come up here and then they go on up until, finally, they come in, we come into True Soul. And you would be up, here, in this area.

And this is the thing, which I’m trying to get across, that those who can recognize and interpret their their subjective experiences of when they leave here, they don’t have to go out and to any of these bodies. They can just go right on up and don’t have to be bothered with any of these, this psychic, this lower psychic plane.

(Student) – “You don’t have to be reincarnated?”

No. There are some people who do come back because they want to be with certain families or that sort of thing. They just make it back. Now, in these, I’ll take up these two very briefly tonight and we’ll do a drill or two. Actually, you must remember that everything here on this plane is an image.

Here are ideas, symbols and any of those things we see as rectangles and that type of things that come into the mind and we recognize them as blocks, something that’s representing another thing, like spiritual issues, a camel walking. And, it represents a different type of prosperity or something. All of these come off of the mental plane. So you see, when you’re working here, actually, you’re working in the form of images. And this, the imaging of the imagination, is not, actually, what we think of it. We’re working with the third eye, here, that everybody talks about. We’re working with this eye here and we’re working it in the terms of trying to concentrate on a certain idea. And, trying to concentrate and manage the mind, will drive anyone crazy.

So, what he does, he sets up his image of what he wants to concentrate on. And, if this concentration will will eventually work into his life. And this is an old all occult idea. But, everything on the astral plane is working and the imagery because there’s nothing that we can imagine that is that isn’t true and hasn’t happened. I have a man who, in Denver, he’s very good at getting out to this astral plane. And, the first time he started this, he didn’t use any of the techniques I gave him, but he used one which he worked out himself. And, that was that he said he was, if everything on Earth is reflection of everything off the astral plane. Then they had the same thing up there that they had down here. They had trees. They had grass. They had all of these forms. So, he sat down one night and he worked out a little plot of grass in his mind. Then he worked out some trees and he said, “All of a sudden, it felt like I was walking along the road.” And, as he walked along this road, well, everything became more real to him. And, he looked over and he saw a group of people and he walked over to these people and he found some some old friends who passed on many years of before that. And, he said that they talked about many things then, after a while, he all of a sudden, he was back in himself again. So, he, actually, used a projection.

Now, he didn’t project out in his astral body. He projected out in a state of consciousness and picked up a body up there, his own body that’s up there anyway. Because we all have, we are all carrying these bodies with us. So, this is actually what astral projection is. I hear people say, “Oh gee, you know, I got a great imagination. I can figure out anything in my imagination.” Well, that’s good, but as long as it doesn’t run in the memory field. He doesn’t want to get some place in the memory field in which that he has already worked out, he’s already gone through that experience, but he wants to go through a different experience in this world here. So, that is about as simple as one can get on that.

Now, coming down to this, the mental, there’s another. The simple explanation on that is when we are concerned with matters at home. We can work around our desk. And, we can work around any of our actual work. And, we can go right on through that in a routine and we’ll be at home and we can be seeing what’s going on at home and we can know the actual condition of the mate there or the family or the children and come back to the work a little bit and catch up and see what we’re doing. And, then our minds go back to this again and we can go home and we can say, “Well gee, you know, you were doing this today, Susie.” And, she says, “Oh, yeah, I was. How’d you know?” See? Well, that is when your attention, and now it has come right back to one thing, your awareness goes to this particular point. See?

And, you’re out there, doing something out there and all you’re working with is awareness. And, so many people trying to do these, any of these drills of this nature, are trying to force themselves into a physical phenomenon to produce a manifestation. And, we’re not all capable doing that. Some of us are. But, all we’re doing is moving our awareness out to another area into the subjective worlds. Now, I don’t know how, I don’t know, myself, how much simpler I can get on this. But, if you got questions, well, I’ll gladly answer them anytime you want to raise your hand. In a minute, I’m going to give you a little drill or two here. See if it comes naturally to you. Sometimes, none of these things come naturally to a person. They invent their own. I’ve had that to happen. It’s perfectly all right with me as long as they were doing it. That’s all I wanted. Okay, a question? Yeah?

(Student) – “While you’re meditating, is there any strain on your mental activities or on your body or a difference that you might sense when you’re in the lower, in the physical planes, a distinction when you get above that?”

Well, I’m sorry.

(Student) – “When I practice it seems I get depleted.”

Well, you’re trying to force this thing.

(Student) – “Well, I’m relaxed to the point I have to fight off from going to sleep.”

Well, sometimes it’s going to sleep…

(Student) – “Would that be the effect of the lower planes?”

No, No, That is all physical. Actually, what you’re doing, I realize that you will go to sleep. I have gone to sleep many a time. But when after get into sleep. sometimes. all this, what you’re looking for, happens right then. See?

(Student) – “Well, sometimes, I ain’t looking for too much. I’m just looking for a job. I try to keep my mind open and see if what I’m trying to do is the wrong thing,”

Well, I would set myself on a goal or a point, yeah, to some place that you would like to do or go. Just like this fellow I was talking about there who went out and met all his former friends. Well, he had a goal to get out there to that plane. He wasn’t quite sure what he’s going to get. It’s just like the man who says he’s going to New York for the first time. He knows he’s going to New York, but he doesn’t know, personally, what New York looks like. See? He might see a picture or something, but he doesn’t know it. So, he goes and he comes back and he’s had the experience. Well, this is what I’m trying to tell you. That if you have a place that you want to go, some somewhere, to have the subjective experience on a plane, then, decide about what you want to do. I know there’s lots of people who want to visit their their parents, their relatives and they set themselves down to do this sort of thing. And, when they do, many times it works out.

Well, the thing is, we don’t know enough about those planes. you have to use huge amounts of imagination. All I know, mostly, is I strive to get on one of those planes. And, meditate on it but, actually, a description or something, but you don’t know what you would find. See? Well, I meditate on what the means are that you describe.”

Well, that’s that’s right. All right. Now, I always say that there’s two three ways you to analyze what you’re doing. The number one thing is to talk with someone who knows something about it. Read books about what these planes look like or you always get them in public libraries or find a friend who’s had the experience.See?

(Student) – “They’re hard to find.”

Not always. There’re a lot of people who are having experiences who know and a lot of the magazines, like the Mate and many of these, will give a lot of this. Yeah, they give the many of the descriptions on this. How far along are you?

(Student) – “I’m about a number 10,”

Now one of those… You know which one of those, Vicky, that gives a descriptions of the planes?

(Vicky) – “Yes, it does. I think it’s 9.”

And, that was actually put down for that purpose.

(Student) – “Well, that’s what I was working on.”

Yeah, I have those reprints on that, too. I’ll come to you just a minute. You see, actually, there are periods that we go through that you can’t do anything with it at all. You just have to be satisfied with it. There are times when we work too hard on it.

Then there’s other times when we are actually setting up barriers or if we didn’t have barriers, we don’t know how to go around them. And I’ve always said that if we do have these inner barriers within ourselves, we should not be bothered with the barriers so much because we can go around them or go over them and avoid them. Certain groups tell us that we have to get rid of these barriers before we can move out.

But I think what’s happening here actually isn’t the fact that you’re not working with the the awareness or the attention as much as you are work as concentrating on on the goal. See? You have to go from here to the goal and you’re still working in time and space.

(Student) – “Kind of getting stuck in between?”

Yeah. well, this is not unusual. Well, that’s why that I was talking about concentration. I don’t particularly believe in concentration. I believe in meditation and contemplation because, then, you’re not forcing the mind, trying to pull the mind over into something. When you contemplate on something, you start thinking about it and you’re examine the whole thing. You get interested in it and and, you know, first thing you know, you’ve passed through a whole era and you’ve actually gone through an experience in this, in contemplating. Excuse me?

(Student) – “I’m wondering that, most of the experiences, everything I’ve read, is that at nighttime and going to other countries that, come daytime, you have to come back to your body.”

It shouldn’t it shouldn’t matter on that.

Incidentally, you know, if you have any degree of awareness at all about moving into other states of Consciousness as I’m talking about here, you can actually read a National Geographic magazine, some article about another country. The whole time you can fit right into the state of consciousness that the writer was doing and see everything through his eyes and, you know, what everything was that has taken place there as he saw it and you have gone through all the experiences that this fellow has going through with. And, then, they’re no longer interested in going to that place. I’ve done that a lot of times, you know read something on the Rhodesians, “Oh, I’m not interested in more, you know. I’ve lived up, I’ve gone through all the experiences I want in Rhodesia.”

(Student) – “I’ve read that you can read any language on the astral. You can read a Chinese book. I don’t know if you have to open it or not.”

Well, there are a lot of nick’s and tricks and gimmicks in that because…

(Student) – “I was wondering. I had one experience of, one or two months ago, I found myself in the kitchen trying to turn the light on and I couldn’t quite get on my feet. I was at a 45 degree angle to the light switch but I couldn’t get it on. And, I started wondering, “Why can’t I get it on?” Then, I realized I was out of my body and I looked. I had my pajamas on and I don’t know if, actually, I was out? But I started rolling back about 3 feet from the floor with my back to the floor. And, I started going back but I said, “I don’t want to go back. I’m not afraid.”

But you were pulled back in.

(Student) – “But I kept going and I went through a door and I hit my body. I felt it solid and I remember I had to bend my leg to get back in. I’ve tried ever since then and haven’t been successful. And, I was wondering if this was a true experience.”

Yeah, it’s not an unusual experience. You could re-experience this again provided that you got the same degree of relaxation, the release of the tensions. Tensions will hold one in there, into the body more than any any thing else. You know, all these things get real humorous at times. I had a woman in England write me and she was real elderly woman.

I don’t know if you heard this before but bear with me if you do. She said that I came to visit her one day and sit down on the chair right opposite her and she put her hand over on my knee and it was just a solid as it could be. I showed the letter to my wife and she says, “Well, that’s all right with me, but I don’t want you going out visiting other ladies like that.” But, you know, this actually. it gets real solid and flesh.

(Student) – “You have no control?”

Sometimes it is a control that one doesn’t know that they do visit. See? But in many times why you do know. And, that’s what you want to come back.

(Student) – “I want to have control”

Well, absolutely. You want to know what you’re doing. Some people get called. And, they will go out in their bodies and they will be pulled out to that by another person who they have a sympathy so strong with.

(Student) – “I remember one your articles is when you were a little boy. You were sick and your grandmother pulled you out, didn’t she?”

She was my sister.

(Student) – “Your sister? And I was, we’re talking about that wouldn’t it be possible that we met an experienced person that they can come over to my house at so to speaking invite me out. We could go out traveling?”

Well, that’s true. It can be done. Now I want to get into the first. I want to give you a little drill here rather that you take home with you use it anytime that you want. It’s a very simple drill. It might be a little hard for you on this reason that many people don’t feel like that. They are actually moving out of themselves. They’re thinking in terms of imagination, but I don’t want you to do that. I want you to sit very relaxed in your seat here. I want I’ll give you a count. I’m sorry, I’ll give you a command to put your attention on a spot on the ceiling where there is a cross, a round spot. And I want you to move this self from here to here. This will be an image spot.

Now, I want you to put that up there in imagery and then I want you to move your attention from this point to this point and when you do that, then I’ll move you someplace else. Anybody think they can’t do this?

Yes, I’m going toast you to sit very quietly. Just get relaxed. Then you would close your eyes and say put an image spot on the ceiling. And then, I want you to move from your body up to that. I say move your move from your body up to that. I’m talking about your attention and I’ll give these commands for you.

Okay, sit quietly. Close your eyes. Anyone doesn’t want to do it perfectly. All right. Okay, put an image spot on the ceiling. Now move your full attention from your body up to that .I’ll give you a few seconds to do that. Alright, those who are there at that spot. Now, I want you to look forward from that spot to the front of the room. for a moment and I want you to reverse that and look at the back of the room. Now if you can I want you to look down at your head.

Okay. That’s all. Anybody could do that? Anybody get any degree of awareness on it at all? Did anybody get up there? I know somebody got it up. How about you, Don? Did you? You did. How about you people? Did you?

Alright, well, we’ll go through the same procedure again about going up to the ceiling. Alright, get easy. Put an image spot on the ceiling. Okay, for all of your attention up there on that spot just slam it up there. Now that you’re up there. Take a look at the back of your head.

Okay, that’s enough. All right, who did that one? Raise your hands. Did you? You did? Good. Did you?

(Student) – “I got a tickeley back there for a while.”

How about you, Steve? Did you?

(Steve) – “No.”

(Student) – “How do you see it?”

(Student) – “Could you be fooling yourself?”

It’s like you’re looking in a mirror at the back of your head. See? You have another mirror here and you look at the back of your head.

(Student) – “Could you be fooling yourself?”

Yeah, this is a crude way of saying this but if somebody kicks you in the shins, you know you’re kicked. When you when you can do this and look at the back of your head, you know it. You know you’re not kidding yourself.

(Student) – “Your whole body is out looking at the back of your head.”

No, not your whole body.

(Student) – “Are you afraid?”

You have an awareness up here with a vision. See? I know some people are. Some people are afraid.

(Student) – “Do you know if some people are doing it?”

Well, generally. Generally, I’m not looking at it that close. I had one fellow, one time, who really got out there. He had fireworks when he went out. You know, after he got back into physical senses, he said, “Something happened! Something happened! You know what happened? Did I really get out there?” I wouldn’t tell him anything. He went around for a long time trying to figure it out. Then, he came to the conclusion that he finally got out and that was his own degree of reality. It’s not like a doctor saying to someone, “You got the mumps.” I know it but you know it, too, without somebody else confirming it. But, this is, actually, that you, actually, know it yourself. You have your own degree of reality.

There’s another little trick here that’s a very good one. I’m going to give it to you tonight. So, you’ll have a couple under your belt. Maybe somebody wanted these. If they do, I’ll write them back on the board. All right. This is – you sit easy. You close the eyes. You take a count from 1 to 10 or something like that or 15, whatever you want to do. Then, you will go. You decide where you want to go. Give a command and stay in that for a certain period. Then, come back to this state, Then, I’ll do all over again. I’ll give you the commands and everything else on it. Sit easy in the chair. Close the eyes. Make your decision where you want to go. Count to a certain number and at the end of that number, you will be out into certain areas. And, this is something like you want to call it a light semi-trance. That’s alright with me. I don’t care what you want to do.

I will give you the count. I’ll give you the commands. Give you the count. I won’t give you the orders of where you want to go. But, I’ll work that and, then, I’ll call you back at the end of a certain period. Okay, get easy and relax. Get the eyes closed. Make your decision where you want to go. I’ll count up to 15 and then you go out at the end of 15. And, then, I’ll give you the command coming back. Okay, count down is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.